How can I be anti-Party? Where am I going to turn the party upside down? I grew up in the arms of the party, grew up in the army, and became a rightist. My nerves were a little crazy. Even when I met my child, I thought she was a debt collector. I suspected that I was crazy, so I was frightened. I thought it was better to die than to be crazy. So I thought, there must be a way to save myself.
Tie Ning was only 15 years old at that time. When her father Tie Yang led her to find me, I was cold-really cold. Because I am still a rightist with my hat off, the rule I set for myself is not to make friends. Because it’s not good for yourself and it’s not good for others.
His works, like his name, shine in the literary world where the stars shine.
The "Private Zhang Ga" he created is irreplaceable among countless figures in the history of China literature.
This is Xu Guangyao.
A 90-year-old writer who joined the Eighth Route Army at the age of 13 and experienced War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, the War of Liberation, the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea and various historical periods after the founding of the People’s Republic of China. His novels "Fire in the Plain" and novella "Private Zhang Ga" are still popular and have influenced readers from generation to generation. Published in 2000, "The West Wind Withered the Green Trees Last Night" won the Lu Xun Literature Award.
Now, Xu Guangyao’s diary with millions of words will be published soon. Here is the primary color of life, but also a slice of the times. Xu Guangyao’s diary has been kept for more than 70 years, involving three wars of resistance against Japan, liberation and the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea, and inevitably involving all previous movements with class struggle as the key link after the founding of the People’s Republic of China. Wen Zhang, a writer, is one of the organizers of Xu Guangyao’s diary. He said that the original ecological and vivid contents presented in Xu Guangyao’s diary can be made into many movies or TV series. Undoubtedly, his diary will expose all the weaknesses of his stubbornness and narrowness in the process of growing up. And these are exactly what many people try to hide. Wen Zhang said: "Xu Lao doesn’t care about personal gains and losses. This is another selfless dedication. Understand this layer, his image can only be taller. "
Does the publication of Xu Guangyao’s diary reveal the secret history of the literary world? Will these historical materials cause an uproar in the literary world?
On March 20th, the reporter of Reading Newspaper interviewed the writer Xu Guangyao.
Zhang Gazi saved my life.
Reading newspaper: Do you always write by hand? Xu Guangyao: I don’t use a computer, and I can’t surf the Internet now. I’m a "laggard", and I’m really backward. I didn’t expect the Internet to be so rich that life can hardly be cut off from the Internet. I haven’t learned it now, and I don’t have the enterprise to learn it.
Reading newspaper: Let’s start with Private Zhang Ga, which we are most familiar with. Under what conditions and under what background did you write this work?
Xu Guangyao: In 1955, the "Ding Chen anti-party clique" was approved. In December 1956, the leading group of the Chinese Writers Association sent me a letter, in which six questions were raised, including whether Ding Ling engaged in personal worship in the Institute of Literature and Research, whether she had engaged in a book doctrine, and whether she had any dissatisfaction with Publicity Department of the Communist Party of China. I wrote a reply. Because the facts stated in this letter were beneficial to Ding Ling’s conviction, when she turned against the Rightists in 1957, she was accused of "reversing Ding Ling’s conviction" and branded me as an "anti-Party and anti-socialist rightist".
After fighting me for three or four months, I became familiar with it, so I thought behind closed doors, didn’t give any tasks, didn’t have anything to do, and nobody cared about me. I struggled in my own room: I joined the Eighth Route Army at the age of 13, joined the party at the age of 13, and worked in the secret department of the party. I have always performed well and am a very reliable backbone figure of the party. Just because he wrote a letter seeking truth from facts, he became an anti-party element and a rightist? I can’t accept this in my heart, and I want to be wronged. How can I be anti-Party? Where am I going to turn the party upside down? I grew up in the arms of the party, grew up in the army, and became a rightist. My nerves were a little crazy. Even when I met my child, I thought she was a debt collector. I suspected that I was crazy, so I was frightened. I thought it was better to die than to be crazy. So I thought, there must be a way to save myself.
I read a lot of books and twelve collections of Shakespeare’s plays. After reading them, I closed the books to sum up my gains, but I couldn’t remember any of them. I want to repeat the specific plot of the script, but I can’t think of it at all. I think I’m crazy! I must try my best to save myself, and I must be rescued from the mire of "self-fighting" that I have been wronged.
Reading newspaper: how to save it?
Xu Guangyao: At this moment, it suddenly occurred to me that I read a psychology book, which said that when people encounter great setbacks, if they don’t control them properly, they will have schizophrenia, which is very dangerous. Is there any way to cure it? There are eight words in the book: "concentrate and change direction".
I think that the most effective way to "change direction" is to create. There was a little guy named Staring Tiger in the Fire in the Plain that I published at that time. He was very active at the beginning of the book, but he didn’t get a chance to show him later, and his wilting ended.
This has become my regret. This character became the later Gazi.
I’m not satisfied with my personality. I’m dull and inactive. I don’t like this kind of personality. I like Gazi, so I thought about what Gazi I met in my life. I wanted to write down one on my desk, and Ga people kept a long list. I put them in a war environment to arrange them, which are childish, which are progressive and which are mature. After arrangement, Ga.
"Private Zhang Ga" is my savior. He pulled me to "divert my direction" so as to forget all the things I was wronged and punished, and my body recovered quickly.
Reading newspaper: I made a movie later.
Xu Guangyao: At first, I didn’t write a novel, but I wrote a screenplay first. It’s easier to write a movie, so I don’t have to work hard on language. As a result, the film was written in the middle, and I couldn’t write any more about how Gazi came out after being confined. Gazi has a personality. If he criticizes him, he will argue with the leader. Once the film is argued, the play can’t be seen. I was disheartened and thought I had never made a movie, so I’d better write a novel! So I went back to writing a novel. The novel was written smoothly. After it was finished, I went back to writing a movie, dealt with it in a tactful way, and the movie script was completed. Shortly thereafter, I was officially labeled as a rightist, and novels and movie scripts were put at the bottom of the box.
I transformed the farm very well. One year later, I took off my rightist hat and became a staff member of Baoding Federation of Literary and Art Circles. From 1959 to 1961, during the three-year difficult period, the party’s policy was relaxed for intellectuals. Zhang Qingtian, editor of Hebei Literature, went to Baoding to solicit contributions and asked me if I had any novels. I asked, "Do you dare to send my things?" He said stiffly, "I dare to ask!" " I gave him the novel Private Zhang Ga. He finished reading the novel on his way back, and wrote back to me soon: "Despite the axe gouge, we decided to publish it."
At the end of 1961, Hebei Literature published Private Zhang Ga.
Reading newspaper: This work is a blockbuster. After so many years, it has been regarded as a "red classic". What inspiration does the success of Private Zhang Ga give us?
Xu Guangyao: In retrospect, I did my best in several books. "Private Zhang Ga" is unique and full of images. I wrote it with all my energy and self-help mentality. The hero I choose is my favorite character all my life, which is my ideal personality, so it is very enjoyable to write, and there are many associations. Moreover, this association seems to fly from the sky, which is more tenable in shaping characters.
I feel that whether writing a novel or a drama, whether it is a novella or a long story or a short story, the most important thing is the characters. China’s literary history strongly proves this point. A Dream of Red Mansions, Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Water Margin by The Journey to the West, the real classic works have very typical characters. We can forget the story, but we can’t forget the characters, who grew up with us in real life, like Zhuge Liang, who is a model of wit; Cao Cao is a villain, but the author writes many things about him very lovely; Xifeng is a vicious character, and her moral character is very bad, but the author also writes her very cute. It is a great skill to write the villain cute. I once said that I would be satisfied if I wrote 5,000 words like A Dream of Red Mansions all my life. Private Zhang Ga was created by me with my life. It has been published for almost 60 years, and it is printed once or twice every year, and it has not been interrupted during the Cultural Revolution.
Reading newspaper: How many books did you say you did your best? What other books?
Xu Guangyao: The Fire in the Plain is a first novel, with good influence and good sales. Another one is "The West Wind Withered Green Trees Last Night", which is also a work written by me with all my vitality. This life has come to an end with this work.
I have an anti-rightist complex.
Reading newspaper: Many of your works are anti-Japanese themes, except "The West Wind withered the green trees last night".
Xu Guangyao: As I said, I have two major complexes in my life, one is the anti-Japanese complex, and the other is the anti-Rightist complex. The anti-Japanese complex makes most of my novels about anti-Japanese, and three of the four films are about anti-Japanese. I couldn’t have written those works without the experience of the Anti-Japanese War. I hardly have any works without the Anti-Japanese War.
Last night, the west wind withered the green trees is another complex work of mine. After I was beaten to the right in 1958, my thoughts changed a lot, which can be said to be a lot of development. My view of the world is not as simple as before, and it is more realistic and conforms to the laws of reality. But one thing, I have been wronged, which I will never let go of.
I didn’t write "The West Wind Withered Green Trees Last Night" immediately after I was rehabilitated, but I thought about it for many years. The general reaction of readers who have read this book is that Xu Guangyao was wronged, but he wrote calmly and didn’t get angry. I wrote this work in the hope of summing up the lessons of the 1957 movement for the party and the people, to tell a few words of truth and to write down the painful lessons. The words I wrote in the last paragraph of my work are politically sharp, but that’s what I really think. I should write and do that.
Reading newspaper: When did your literary hobby begin? Who are the works and writers that have the greatest influence on you?
Xu Guangyao: My father is a literary lover. When he was young, he worked with a theatrical troupe and had many plays in his mind. In the evening, my father often told us stories, including The Journey to the West’s Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Strange Tales from a Lonely Studio, as well as folk stories, Xue Rengui, king cat and Biography of Bao Gong. This gives me the impression that chivalrous men, chivalrous men and swordsmen are all people in the world who can save human suffering. There are four or five picture books at home. I don’t know how many times I have read them, and I have memorized them all. One year, my father bought some New Year pictures from Yangliuqing, Tianjin, and sold them on the album. I read the topic to people who bought the pictures. My father bought The Three Chivalrous Swords from Tianjin and asked my brother to read it to his neighbors. Half way through, my brother went to work, and my neighbors were very discouraged. My father asked me to read it to my neighbors. This reading shocked the villagers, who said that such a young child could read. This made me very proud. I read night after night, very proud, and at the same time I was infected and trained in writing. Whether it’s Fire in the Plain or Private Zhang Ga, some sentences are obviously borrowed from traditional novels. Later, I also read some old novels circulated by the people and wrote down these stories after reading them, which trained my language expression and writing ability. I’m always at the top of my composition at school, which is directly related to my ability to read old novels.
Reading newspaper: Have you changed your understanding and attitude towards literature?
Xu Guangyao: In the past, when reading foreign works, including Tolstoy and Hugo’s works, I understood literary works according to Mao Zedong’s speech at the Yan ‘an Forum on Literature and Art; In the new era, especially after the Third Plenary Session of the Eleventh Central Committee, a large number of foreign literary works came in. At this time, I accepted it again. I was not as stubborn as before the Cultural Revolution, so I resisted, such as the theory of human nature, which was always criticized in the past. I have made a lot of progress in accepting the avant-garde and stream of consciousness in specific creative methods.
Reading newspaper: Tie Ning once expressed your influence on her when she was interviewed by reading newspaper. In addition to the influence of your creation on the readers, you are still a good Bole. Where do you think a writer is a good seed of creation?
Xu Guangyao: The first time I saw Tie Ning’s works, I got two impressions. First, the language is fluent and has a potential beauty. Language is a major factor in expressing genius in literary works; The second is to paint and express the image, which is very keen and vivid. This is the skill that literary creation should have. Tie Ning was only 15 years old at that time. When her father Tie Yang led her to find me, I was cold-really cold. Because I am still a rightist with my hat off, the rule I set for myself is not to make friends. Because it’s not good for yourself and it’s not good for others. Tie Ning wanted to read to me, but I said I wouldn’t listen to the reading, so I would have a good look when I was quiet. Indeed, they were there, and it was too late to express their opinions immediately. I was still serious about my work. I said you can talk about it next Saturday. When we met again, my attitude changed immediately, and I said several "really not simple" words to Tie Ning.
Tie Ning is a genius.
Reading newspaper: Tie Ning said that you had a decisive influence on her life.
Xu Guangyao: "Decisive influence" is absolutely unworthy. I have a point that writers are not cultivated. If they can be cultivated, all the children of writers can become writers. I didn’t admit that there was a genius in literature before, and I didn’t admit it until the iron was set. She is a genius. She can be a genius without going through me. At that time, she was admitted to Shanghai Ballet Academy, and she had passed the interview. She was thinking about literature, so her father led her to me, thinking that her conduct was not good. I affirmed her work and said it was a novel. Tie Ning stopped going to Shanghai and decided to experience life in the countryside. That’s what I do, nothing else.
Later, when she jumped the queue, she wrote a novel and wrote "Oh, Xiang Xue". Sun Li said to Tie Ning: My novel is not as good as yours! I don’t think I can speak. I have no ability to evaluate her works. I am not a person who has a long-term influence on Tie Ning, but Tie Ning has helped me a lot. I have learned a lot from her.
Reading newspaper: So who has the greatest influence on you?
Xu Guangyao: I am a personal struggler. I am a strong person myself, and I have the spirit of self-struggle. When I was a child, I had the ambition to be a man. I wanted to do something real and get ahead in some ways. I was deeply impressed by the lectures given by Chen Qixia and Xiao Yin in the Literature Department of North China United University, which helped me to know more about the basic knowledge of literature.
Reading newspaper: How did Ding Ling influence you?
Xu Guangyao: Ding Ling likes me very much and values me. I quoted two letters from her in Last Night’s West Wind Withered Blue Trees. One is her reply after I wrote to her when I met some difficulties and confusion when I lived in North Korea. First, when I graduated from the Institute of Literature and Art, I wrote her a letter and got her reply. The two letters were really good, really good. When I was anti-Rightists, I was ordered to hand in two letters. When I read them again, I was still extremely moved. I handed in the original letter and secretly copied a copy of it myself. Everyone will be moved when they read them. A few words in the letter will never be forgotten. She said: "It’s not terrible not to write for a while, but to write badly all my life." He also said, "Don’t always remember that you are a writer, but forget yourself." It was very profound. I often use these words to spur myself in the future: I don’t write much, but I try my best to write well.
Naked diarist
Reading newspaper: What’s the difference between Xu Guangyao, a literary writer, and Xu Guangyao, a diary owner?
Xu Guangyao: I keep a diary. I just practice writing. Train my expression and writing skills. Keeping a diary is completely naked, and you really tell yourself. I get angry when someone steals a look, and even my wife reads my diary, which makes me very unhappy. As the author of a diary, I am naked in my position in the world, which is impossible in literary creation. Writing should write down my most proud and shining place.
Reading newspaper: How does the publication of diary help to understand your works?
Xu Guangyao: The diary wrote about people like me, my anti-Japanese war, my schooling and land reform, and the war to resist U.S. aggression and aid Korea. The things recorded here are of reference value for understanding how the times advanced and how they breathed at that time, and have certain documentary historical materials. After all, although they are personal activities, they reflect the voice of the times. Take those three wars as an example. If anyone is interested in studying them, my diary will provide something useful.
Reading newspaper: when you write a diary, you never want to show it to others, let alone publish it. It’s very true. But once it is published and sorted out, does it need special treatment?
Xu Guangyao: Some swearing words should not be made public, not only for fear that some people mentioned or their children will protest-this is secondary, mainly because a negative emotion should not be publicized. Others are secrets. For example, in War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, there are many truths that can’t be said. For fear of revealing military secrets, I dare not say that I am digging a tunnel, but I will say it differently. When I write about Di Liangzhuang, I will write the word "Di". All these things will be handled by readers in order to make them understand.
Reading newspaper: After so many wars and various sports, you yourself have experienced many hardships, so is the preservation of your diary also very tortuous?
Xu Guangyao: There was no problem after liberation. I started to keep a diary in 1941. The people expressed their sympathy for some things sent by the People’s Liberation Army. I got a diary. When I started writing, I wrote seven or eight sentences a day. Wang Changjiang, my brigade commander, opened my diary and smiled: "Xu Guangyao, you wrote a dime to buy peanuts in your diary!" I said, "It’s a big deal to send a dollar a month and take out one tenth to buy peanuts." Every time I March, I write down the villages I have passed. Later, this diary was lost. If it is preserved today, it will be even more precious.
Reading newspaper: What secret literary history will be revealed in your diary?
Xu Guangyao: I didn’t know there was a secret history in the literary world. I have experienced some class struggles in the literary and art circles, and my diary inevitably records some situations of such struggles. There are not many secrets, or there are, but I don’t know. What impressed me most was the anti-Rightists, and what I knew and felt was described in Last Night’s West Wind Withered Green Trees.
Reading newspaper: Your diary has several basic principles, such as consensus, voluntariness, loyalty, accuracy and completeness. Can it only be relative? If it is completely published, will some contents cause an uproar in the literary world? Do you have any concerns?
Xu Guangyao: Loyalty is certain. It’s hard to say exactly. It’s my personal vision, and my vision is limited.
I have this concern. I have shown myself and the whole history, and I have a great analysis of myself. Some people who may be mentioned and their descendants are unhappy.
Reading newspaper: What made you overcome your worries? In the eyes of many readers, you are a noble image. Now exposing your shortcomings will affect readers’ views on you?
Xu Guangyao: If it’s good for people, it’s no harm to sacrifice yourself. In the preface of the diary, I said that I now realize that it was my fault that I thought it was others’ fault, and modern people would understand it. I also criticized my own shortcomings and mistakes in my diary. Whether it will destroy my image in the readers’ minds is inevitable. I don’t care.
The current anti-Japanese war works are fabricated.
Reading newspaper: Do you pay attention to the current works on the theme of the Anti-Japanese War?
Xu Guangyao: I was disappointed and a little angry. Most of them are exaggerated and fabricated. It’s not true in my eyes, but it’s fake at first sight, and there’s no basis. I also compiled Fire in the Plain, but there are real events to support it. Now the work is not true at first, and it can’t move me.
If you have a genius, it is still possible to write something real. In the future, some people will write about War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, which should be serious writing. They really possess materials and have a high artistic accomplishment, but they can still write good works.
Reading newspaper: Do you have any idea to write one yourself?
Xu Guangyao: If I were young, I really had a good theme, and the topic was "The General Coming to Us". This theme has been installed for decades, and now it is rotten in my stomach. People are people I admire very much. They are very lively, and they are viewed from a modern perspective, not from the past. If you really write it, you will die in print.
Reading newspaper: Is it possible to cooperate with others by dictation?
Xu Guangyao: I can’t tell stories. A Soviet writer said that there are two kinds of writers, one is to conceive with the brain; One is that the story can only be written if you pick up a pen. I am the second kind. I wanted to write, either interrupted by this or that. God forbid me to write this. I feel sorry for my lack of strength now.
Reading Newspaper: North China is the main battlefield of the Anti-Japanese War behind enemy lines, and its writers are also rich in strength, including Li Yingru’s Wildfire and Spring Breeze Fighting against the Ancient City, Feng Zhi’s Armed Forces Behind Enemy Lines, Liu Liu’s Fire and Gold Steel, Li Xiaoming and Han Anqing’s Gunshots in the Plain, Sun Li’s The Story of the Storm and the Chronicle of Baiyangdian. How do you evaluate yourself as a member of North China writers?
Xu Guangyao: I am a second-rate person. Like Sun Li and Liang Bin, they are first-class. It’s not easy for me to be a second-rate person.
Reading newspaper: You mentioned your regret just now, so is there anything you are most proud of?
Xu Guangyao: A man wanted to write a biography for me, and thought that I had three great contributions, one was writing Private Zhang Ga, the other was discovering Tie Ning, and the third was writing The West Wind withered the green trees last night. I feel better myself, one is Private Zhang Ga, and the other is The West Wind Withered the Green Trees Last Night. I didn’t find the iron condensate. It would be great if I really found out.
Reading newspaper: What characteristics do you think excellent works should have?
Xu Guangyao: First, writing about people. The ultimate goal of literature is to write about people. There must be typical, plump and vivid figures who can stand on the world forever and become immortal figures. The second is language. I don’t pay much attention to language when I look at current literary works. I pay great attention to language. My own language is not good, but I work hard. Literary works should be beautiful, accurate, vivid and vivid. The third is thinking, which requires profound thinking. At least these three factors must be met.
